No sir, I don't have time to talk to you about saving myself. No, I don't want to take a non-passable psychological exam. Free medicine and food if I attend your weekly services? Thanks, but I'll pass. Selling the business of religion needs to be redone, and I'm just the atheist to set it straight.
You should know some things up front. I'm a part-time atheist/agnostic. My belief in a heavenly father/being changes depending on if my favorite sports teams are in the playoffs, I need a raise, or the tests are coming back from that chick I slept with. In other words, I celebrate Christmas for the presents.
I'm fine with this. I happy about it. I get to sleep in on Sundays. But there are a lot of people out there who want to save me. Want me to see the light. Want me to find redemption. They think my life isn't complete without a belief in something more. And, according to them, they're just the people to get me to that higher plane of existence.
I am a religious preacher's wet dream. As I haven't yet invested in a chosen deity, I could go anywhere. Want me to worship your toilet bowl? Making a pilgrimage to Eagle Bend, Minnesota to see the image of Donald Trump on a highway overpass drainage stain? I could do all of that. No savior is holding me down.
The one sticking point is that I'm well read, especially in terms of religion. I've read books on all the major religions, and many more on those the major religions sought to quell. What's more, I have a subtle fascination with religious fanaticism. What makes someone so devoted to a possibility that they're willing to kill for it?
Don't get me wrong. I think religion, in the correct applications, is a great thing. From fighting alcoholism to saving marriages, religion is a necessary part of many people's lives. Just not all people. And this is my problem.
I take issue with the fear mongering, yelling, "believe in this, because I believe in it and you're fucked if you don't" mentality. The people shouting about fire and brimstone on subway platforms. Little old ladies forcing pamphlets in my face comparing homosexuality to child-rape. What kind of person responds to this hit over the head approach? Who would want to believe in something that makes people so angry? Further, what makes them feel that they're right? What makes their religion better? And, if it is that much better, why are you over-compensating by yelling about it?
Conversely, I've noticed a group of elderly women in the Grand Central subway station who simply stand around and hold pamphlets. They are quiet. They are unobtrusive. The message they're sending out isn't, "join or perish" but one of "check it out if you want." This type of passive proselytization works. Sure, you won't get the shock value. You may not get the drastic number of converts. But, at the end of the day, you're selling your religion as a quiet and peaceful organization, not something that will demand cash in order to save your soul.
We need more of this. Forget billboards on highways. Forget fiery sermons on soap boxes in Times Square. And please, for the good of man kind, don't make waves by blaming natural disasters on two men sharing the same bed. This kind of mentality is what got Hitler in trouble a few years back. Instead, be content with who you are and what you believe. If you feel the need to share your thoughts and ideas, do so in a compassionate and respectable manner. Don't force things. Don't threaten. Accept that some people might be different from you, and that's a good thing. And, while you're at it, explore other ideas that aren't your beliefs. See what other people see. Learn.
At the end of all things, religion/non-religion comes down to what makes you happy. Something you can hold on to that gets you through the tough times. And, if none of that works, take a page out of George Carlin's book and worship Joe Pesci.
I'm fine with this. I happy about it. I get to sleep in on Sundays. But there are a lot of people out there who want to save me. Want me to see the light. Want me to find redemption. They think my life isn't complete without a belief in something more. And, according to them, they're just the people to get me to that higher plane of existence.
I am a religious preacher's wet dream. As I haven't yet invested in a chosen deity, I could go anywhere. Want me to worship your toilet bowl? Making a pilgrimage to Eagle Bend, Minnesota to see the image of Donald Trump on a highway overpass drainage stain? I could do all of that. No savior is holding me down.
The one sticking point is that I'm well read, especially in terms of religion. I've read books on all the major religions, and many more on those the major religions sought to quell. What's more, I have a subtle fascination with religious fanaticism. What makes someone so devoted to a possibility that they're willing to kill for it?
Don't get me wrong. I think religion, in the correct applications, is a great thing. From fighting alcoholism to saving marriages, religion is a necessary part of many people's lives. Just not all people. And this is my problem.
I take issue with the fear mongering, yelling, "believe in this, because I believe in it and you're fucked if you don't" mentality. The people shouting about fire and brimstone on subway platforms. Little old ladies forcing pamphlets in my face comparing homosexuality to child-rape. What kind of person responds to this hit over the head approach? Who would want to believe in something that makes people so angry? Further, what makes them feel that they're right? What makes their religion better? And, if it is that much better, why are you over-compensating by yelling about it?
Conversely, I've noticed a group of elderly women in the Grand Central subway station who simply stand around and hold pamphlets. They are quiet. They are unobtrusive. The message they're sending out isn't, "join or perish" but one of "check it out if you want." This type of passive proselytization works. Sure, you won't get the shock value. You may not get the drastic number of converts. But, at the end of the day, you're selling your religion as a quiet and peaceful organization, not something that will demand cash in order to save your soul.
We need more of this. Forget billboards on highways. Forget fiery sermons on soap boxes in Times Square. And please, for the good of man kind, don't make waves by blaming natural disasters on two men sharing the same bed. This kind of mentality is what got Hitler in trouble a few years back. Instead, be content with who you are and what you believe. If you feel the need to share your thoughts and ideas, do so in a compassionate and respectable manner. Don't force things. Don't threaten. Accept that some people might be different from you, and that's a good thing. And, while you're at it, explore other ideas that aren't your beliefs. See what other people see. Learn.
At the end of all things, religion/non-religion comes down to what makes you happy. Something you can hold on to that gets you through the tough times. And, if none of that works, take a page out of George Carlin's book and worship Joe Pesci.
How dare you use calm, rational logic? Next you'll be saying God didn't directly cause the Patriots to lose the Super Bowl and that it wasn't His plan that the Rockies lose the World Series after all of that prayer!
Very nice Echowood! You captured my exact position on this issue, so much so, that I'd like permission to print it and hand it out to the next group of Latter Day Saints that drop by my house while I'm in the middle of my sceance with Bob Marley. You'd think those rude SOBs know I'm not interested when I answer the door with my candles lit, the chicken bones scattered on the floor, and I'm in full feather head-gear. But they don't. When you tell them that you're "busy", they actually ask (this part really is true) "when's a good time to come back?"
I grew up Apostolic Pentecostal, so yeah - I was pretty much scared shitless of my Lord and Savior until I was about 10 or so. Like you, I studied and took an odd interest in fanatics and ultimately developed an informed opinion of my own. One that does not REQUIRE I give 10% of my income to the pimp...er, um ...CHURCH, and one that will not rebuke me to hell for practicing safe pre-marital sex...with myself. I digress.
God bless you Echowood.
Still waiting for Jesus to bring the pork chops,
ConservaLiberCrat.
very nice article with good points.
"Don't get me wrong. I think religion, in the correct applications, is a great thing. From fighting alcoholism to saving marriages, religion is a necessary part of many people's lives. Just not all people. And this is my problem."
i must disagree on this part though. how can you, as a "part-time atheist/agnostic," think there are correct applications to a completely flawed and invented believe system?
i do know of people that claim they got over alcoholism all in thanks to religion. they'd go to church and pray and pray and try not do drink, finally after a lot of praying and will power they dont get drunk and have good lives then the preach about how god helped them... this to me is like George Carlin said about self help books: "If you’re looking for self help, why would you read a book, written by somebody else?! That’s not self help, that’s help! There’s no such a thing as self help…if you did it yourself, you didn’t need help. You did it yourself!"
they simply stuck to their decision no matter how hard and had enough will power and hard work to come out on the other side.
just thought i'd put that in. also dont forget thats there's too a Noodly Appendage waiting to touch all of us that are not yet Pastafarians
Nothing like stirring the Kool-Aid on a Monday.
Etantao- I forgot about Pastafairianism! Good point. About your objection to the "correct applications" comment... I believe that there are (many) people who need religion. Whether or not it's something that you believe is irrelevant as long as it makes the followers happy. We, as Agnostics, would be just as guilty of pushing our agenda in a similar fashion were we not to accept that many people need religion in their lives. And I should have been more clear in regard to the alcoholism/marriage thing. Who knows if prayer can cure anyone? It definitely hasn't cured me of being intolerably awesome. But a lot of religions support groups and treatment centers for their followers to get off drugs or work on their marriages. And, in that part, I think they do some good.
Now you'll have to excuse me. I need to do some blow off a hooker who is most definitely NOT my wife.
Excellent article. I, too, an completely devoid of religion in it's classic sense. I believe in nature and I'd LIKE to believe in Karma but so far it hasn't struck down my douche-bag of a sister yet. You showed tremendous restraint in not going off on Catholocism. I always thought it odd that the hordes of catholics got advice on their marriages from a man who knows nothing of marriage or, for the most part, women in general. I saw an ad the other day with a priest in it and I was chilled that my first reaction was, "Eww, pervert pedo" as opposed to something nice. Who, in this day and age, would truly want to be a priest?
i see what you are saying but it still comes down to the "self help" thing and i think it's sad. also, there must be a moment where you gotta get tired of it being pushed on you and push back, even if it's just a little.
here in Puerto Rico every christian church is pushing against the local government, on the streets and against who ever they don't agree with like gay people. this is all very frustrating cause even though religious numbers are dropping globally they get more and more extreme in their views. and when you add extremism to illogical thinking you get the well known examples we know (intolerance, genocide and wars) over and over ad nauseam.
and it seems prayer cant cure:
http://www.davidmyers.org/Brix?pageID=122
/rant
I personally have always thought faith was a wonderful thing, as long as you don't screw it up with religion.
Please allow me to play devils advocate for a minute. . or wait or God’s advocate.. Or whatever…
I’ll just be argumentative Dave
As an “atheist setting it straight.”
You have come in to my office, proclaimed your faith, and tried to persuade me with your opinion on what is right and what is wrong.
I visit YBNBY for a little light humor and silly reading during a busy and sometimes not so busy workday. I make funny comments, not so funny comments, give some dude named Trailwaze a hard time, he gives me a hard time, I throw out advise on my so called “expertise” on hooking up with chicks. I write things that I don’t mean, say things that I don’t do, I say appropriate things, and inappropriate things, I read about bacon and monkeys and funny little absurd stories that are fictional, non-fictional, and part fictional. It’s a little fun way for me to pass the time.
Today, after fighting a small problem at work, I click over to YBNBY thinking that I’m going to read about Homer Simpson, only to find myself neck deep into your beliefs.
While reading your beliefs, you impose your opinion on how or how not religion should be shared and discussed.
You made light of and condemned practices of what some people feel pretty passionate about.
YBNBY is something you are proud of. You put your heart into it, you tell your friends, your neighbors, and your family about it. You advertise it in public places.
Today you came at your readers with a picture of Homer Simpson and the title “Dust.”
I wanted to read about Homer Simpson and about Dust. While I’m reading your column, WHAM! I get hit over the head with your religious opinion. What kind of person am I to respond to this type of hit over the head approach? If this article made me angry is it going to persuade me to change my ways? Further, what makes you feel that your opinion is right? What makes you feel that your opinion is better? And, if your way is that much better why are you over-compensating by posting your material to the whole world on the Internet?
I read a book about a wise man, which while walking along a street came upon a woman who had been accused of adultery. Everyone around her wanted to stone her for committing such a terrible crime. The people looked to the wise man and asked what he thought they should do. The wise man stooped to the ground and wrote something in the dust. As he stood up the people looked at what was written. They read: “He that is without sin, let him cast the first stone.” The people being ashamed quietly walked away.
I guess the point that I’m trying to make is, that we all have an opinion, and most of us that have an opinion, weather it be religion, politics, sports, etc. Most of us, if we feel passionate about something usually share it.
For the most part, we don’t share our opinion because we despise a person; we share it because we have found success or happiness with that opinion.
I agree that we should try our best to share our thoughts and ideas in a compassionate and respectable manner, but sometimes comparing another persons belief system to Adolph Hitler’s; though may seem compassionate at the time to some, may not be as compassionate at that time to others. We are human, and I think that most of us, weather we are a dude on a street corner holding a sign trying to save a few souls, or a writer on the Internet trying to make peace between two opposing opinions, are all just trying to find a way to be happy. And when we find a few things that make us happy we share it because we want others to be happy too and I think that’s pretty commendable.
I enjoyed your column today.
Love Dave
I'm with you Dave and Ross too. Whenever i come across a well educated person with who i can have a sensible conversation i do. But that is because the tone is agreeable to us both. We can each say things that the other might find preposterous or illogical and still keep the discussion going in a friendly way. Here is where i make my distinction because more often than not, at least where i live, i dont get the chance for this. As soon as i get my views across they change gears into the "you are SO wrong and must repent or spend eternity in hell!!!" and that would be frustrating to anyone.
"If this article made me angry is it going to persuade me to change my ways? Further, what makes you feel that your opinion is right? What makes you feel that your opinion is better? And, if your way is that much better why are you over-compensating by posting your material to the whole world on the Internet?"
Very rarely do i try to anger people (sometimes it is highly funny) neither do i try to change their views, that is not my job. Nothing makes my position right and the other wrong but that is just the same the other way around. Yes, this could be seen as overcompensation but even more so are many of the protest and movements from many churches across the nation.
The bottom line i think is that from either side come good talk and actions and some not so good.
Really though?
Religion?
On YBNBY?
Preposterous!
I must fart and make bacon to cleans myself of such an atrocity.